Originally written for PhantomCitizen.net to mark the opening of “The Letter” at Key Cinemas in 2002, I interviewed Blaine Hogan and Dylan Griffith about the making of the film. What was originally slated as a relatively innocuous interview became an hour-and-a-half marathon discussion on not only “The Letter,” but the state of the Indianapolis art community. I have attempted to fit in as much of the dialogue as possible, which reflects everything from the enthusiasm that went into making “The Letter” to their ruminations on the creative process to their doubts about creating a viable artistic community in Indianapolis. The following interview is an attempt to reflect the eagerness and uncertainty of these two young artists at the beginning of their careers.

Jason Dash: First of all, Dylan, describe the premise of “The Letter,” and how it developed from an idea to film.

Dylan Griffith: “The Letter” is about a character that loses his girlfriend and through a series of hallucinations and flashbacks you get to see how they became separated. It started from the necessity to have a first project. I decided I wanted to work on a very basic idea and not necessarily plot driven [film]. To let it take form as a series of images. [I] had the ending and wanted to work with specific ideas and let the actors develop the characters. Blaine took it certain directions. Dean [Williams, composer] took it certain directions with the score

Blaine Hogan: What’s it about?

DG: The people I’ve talked to said they like that they can apply certain aspects to their own lives and relationships. There are the workings of a plot, but it is more a study of emotions and character. People can latch on to the story as the creators latched on and tell their stories.

JD (To both): Describe the collaboration between you two, how you met and got to know each other.

BH: Dylan had a flyer and had auditions, where I worked with Kyle’s [Hodapp, “Letter” and Phantom Citizen contributor] girlfriend. We did the scene where he is trying to figure out whether he should mail the letter and the scene in the park and has his hallucination where they roll around in the park. I remember leaving and thinking there weren’t a lot of people auditioning. The business side of me made me get online and e-mail Dylan and thank him for the audition.

DG: He was very enthusiastic throughout the audition. [To Blaine] I thought you were lying when you were like, “Is this great? Did you write it?” I thought this is a hell of a time for you to be sarcastic because what we had wasn’t a script as anyone who has seen the movie knows. It’s silent. The characters talk but you don’t here them. What we handed them at the audition was a general character description.

JD: How did you audition based on that idea?

DG: We took a couple of scenes which is kinda the beginning of how I would direct this movie which was my first time directing. It’s kind of a strange way to get into directing. There weren’t bits of dialogue for them to work on. I would have them read the scene and I would tell them a bit of their character’s motivation. I just wanted them to go from there because there’s no dialogue to grasp onto just make me believe this scene. Blaine excelled.

BH: It was a lot of fun. I was really excited about the prospect of doing it.

JD: Not to pat each other on the back, but what about his audition really stood out? How did you envision the main character and did he conform to that?

DG: Blaine has a certain ability to tell things through his facial expressions, which is important for people working in a silent film. Not to sound clichéd, but he had a real intensity about him. In fact, after he left, my art director Emily Bick, said “He’s going to be the one.” The funny thing is the biggest thing holding Blaine back was that in the script the main character was supposed to have a beard. At the time we asked if he could grow a beard and he said yes.

BH: Well I said it’s really disgusting if I let it grow.

DG: He has a really smooth babyface.

BH: My Matthew Broderick face. We discussed the possibility of doing makeup and he wanted my hair longer. In the process of him casting me I had to cut my hair and I showed up the first day of costume fitting and my hair was virtually shaved.

DG: Yeah that was a main concern. Emily Bick was trying to come up with an aesthetic or look for the character. So we were all brainstorming because we really wanted to work with Blaine. To differentiate between present and past Blaine we decided to muss his hair up and use his glasses. Then when he came his hair was all shaved off practically and he didn’t tell us he was going to do that. Emily was very upset.

BH: You can see if you pay attention—

DG: You can tell when each piece was shot due to—

BH: Hair growth, length.

JD: It kind of has a dreamy quality where the time thing doesn’t matter as much.

DG: There are other elements of continuity errors that are more obvious anyway

JD (To Blaine): What about the main character was interesting to you and what did you think you could lend that would be interesting?

BH: A lot of it had to do with choosing Mandy who I was in a class with at the time. It was an amazing class under the Sanford-Meisner acting technique which [incorporates] how you naturally feel about the circumstances of the scene and letting it play out. It was about improv and because of the class Mandy and I were interesting in using that technique for really intense scenes. Because of that it had to be about myself and Mandy. If it were possible to hear the dialogue [in “The Letter,”] it was pretty personal. It was about the life of the characters, but we could improv we could incorporate ourselves. Being stuck in the apartment we had to be professional, but being first timers was frustrating. Some of the heated moments were pretty biting. It was perfect for where I was at that time in my life.

JD: How much of it was improvisation? Were any crucial moments improv?

DG: Some of the fights scenes felt very real. We were talking about character’s motivations. But if you could listen to the audio, the arguments became something entirely different; very personal. I wanted them to incorporate certain gestures and how the scene [specifically] began and ended and for the actors to get there how they wanted to and we ended up with some pretty great stuff. Almost all the stuff that we used was through their own creation. One of the fight scenes I wanted some motions to make it believable. We ended up using almost none of the times that Blaine did what I told him to do and more when he did what he wanted.

BH: The whole thing really became a gigantic acting exercise. When I was having trouble I would step away from the dialogue and, knowing how the scene starts and ends, just try to figure out how to get there using what ever comes naturally, and still try to hit Dylan’s directions.

JD: Talk a little bit more about you and Mandy’s relationship. It’s obviously really important to the film. There aren’t a lot of scenes where you two interact directly but the ones where you do are really important.

BH: When Dylan asked who I knew [who could play the female lead,] Mandy was the only person who came to mind. It seemed like a natural fit. She has a maturity about her where she was able to let go of conventions and be real to where we were going. The relationship evolved when the arguments got real and biting. We were talking about Mandy and Blaine issues... man/woman issues.

DG: Yeah, I remember Alex getting nervous at times (Alex being the all-purpose crew member that was there at all times sleeping at the apartment while we were shooting). There were times when she was saying how your career was going nowhere and we were both like “OH!” We’ll just let it play out.

BH: I think it played out pretty well.

DG: For the record, I don’t think she was serious. I think she was trying to trigger things for the moment.

BH: As for the “love” scene...

DG: At one time, the script called for a love scene that was more physically intense between the two characters that took place after the dance sequence. We shot the dancing sequence first and I thought it achieved the physical intimacy we wanted out of the love scene. It was so good. We shot both, but we decided after we edited that the love scene wasn’t needed for the story.

BH: It was never uncomfortable. We knew each other and trusted each other throughout the whole time.

DG: It came off very natural. I was very impressed. The dancing sequence was one of the first things we shot; one of the first days. I wasn’t sure how the chemistry between Blaine and Mandy would work. I remember thinking watching it that night how well it turned out. I’ve seen stuff like that turned out very false. [The dancing scene in “The Letter”] felt very real and natural. I was impressed. For my first directorial project, I wasn’t sure at all how it would go.

JD (to Dylan): Is there anything that Blaine added during film that you didn’t anticipate... that you didn’t write into the script but came out during filming?

DG: I think the way in which Blaine inhabited the role. Especially since there is no dialogue, it becomes very hard what was there before and what it became when Blaine was in the mode of acting. The character became him. I didn’t have to discuss motivation a whole lot. He understood where the character was going, aside from the sequence which was strange.

BH: That for me was the hardest part, figuring out the simple motives. Figuring out what I want at this moment and trying to get it. I think with anything, the actor will add something that wasn’t there before. That’s the beauty of it. Dylan’s script, as perfect as it may have been, is completely changed, goes through a metamorphosis. It is such a collaboration that each of us would prompt things we hadn’t thought of before.

DG: Some of the way I was seeing the character at first was as a lot more beaten down throughout the whole story and there were times where Blaine would find moments that were lighter and happier. It made the character fuller; more of a real character. I wrote the script as more simple emotions and ideas and when I saw him playing he brought certain aspects of the character to life. There are little moments where you could see expressions on Blaine’s face that would lighten the times. It adds a sort of overall bittersweet happiness.

JD: Any particular moments?

DG: When he was getting ready in the morning after dance sequence, he was smirking and I thought we can’t use that because it’s too silly. Then I thought maybe it makes sense. I remember not knowing how what he was doing was going to work. The idea of having the past and present aspects of the character were all based on memories and were thus exaggerated, so there were moments where he was sweet and moments where he was angry and agitated. There’s one thing to have him play just polar opposites, but the way he played it filled in a lot of that. It’s not just two different characters. He adds shades of gray and made the character full.

JD (To Blaine): How different was doing “The Letter” from past theater work?

BH: I had done a considerable amount of commercial work and had been told that I needed to bring it down because I’m so used to being on stage. What I like about it is the subtleties, the quietness and the stillness. I experienced this during Hedwig because the space was so small and intimate and in such an intimate setting you don’t have don’t to worry about being loud enough or other technical mechanisms that you’re constantly thinking about in theater.

DG: I agree. There’s a scene where you’re talking on the phone. What you were saying was very—had this element of sarcasm like you’re talking to an imaginary editor. I remember saying to Alex I didn’t know if the sarcasm would play. I remember watching it later without sound that night and you could see it in Blaine’s face, the exact emotions that we needed.

JD: The Letter is also a more technically complicated movie than just a linear narrative. What you [Dylan] do is very important to understanding the movie. Are there any aspects of what you did that you think is particularly important?

DG: What I’m most proud of is the way that everyone got to mold the story. The way the story was written as a series of scenes that had beginnings and ends but no specific plot structure and that the whole circus of ideas became one single story. I’m proud of that particular aspect. The way Dean got to tell a story through what he did. Blaine got to tell a story. To a certain degree, Alex and I in the editing process—to a large degree through the way it was shot and edited. Specifically, one of the things that people seem to enjoy that I almost did not keep in the movie is the mosaic sequences. It happens twice in the movie: Once when Blaine is calling Mandy on the phone and also when the letter is being delivered. I got the idea from movies in the 1970s when the idea of doing that sort of thing on film was emerging or becoming popular. I remember there was a Steve McQueen film—

JD: The Thomas Crowne Affair.

DG: —where they did a lot of that. I wrote this sequence because the movie to me is a lot about memory or reminiscence. The idea was of the way his memory is piecing everything together. It’s another way or presenting the idea of memory like when she walks by the picture in both mosaic sequences. It’s an assemblage of what was important to him and his memories of her apartment and the path that he knows she’s going to go to the phone. Once we started shooting the movie, “Timecode” came out, which operates similarly. They did a movie with four panes running simultaneously. Because of this movie, a lot of commercials started using this concept and so I was getting discouraged. I was getting frustrated and thinking it’s too late on this idea. But there’s not a whole lot of it now.

BH: I was just going to say... now it’s gone. We can spearhead its resurgence

DG: Yeah, I wanted to do a short that was entirely like that because I was fascinated with the concept of telling a story that way. It works very well with the character’s fractured memory. I’m glad it works because I thought it might be too gimmicky. Thankfully it made sense in the context of the film. Aside from that I had liberty to experiment with the camerawork because it was digital video. I haven’t been to film school and there are a lot of things I didn’t know about visual storytelling. I think the spirit of that experimentation comes out in the movie. The shot selections and even some of the failures [laughing] helped tell the story. A lot of that became the language of this film.

JD (To Blaine): Do you have any comments on the production of the film? Are there any aspects of it that you think made your performance stand out?

BH: I have to say hearing the sound in theater—I think the score in some very specific places does everything it’s supposed to do. Dean did an awesome job once we got it. I personally identify exclusively with music. There’s so much about it that fuels my emotions. To watch that and watch it in sync with what was happening on screen was a real treat. I kept anticipating what it’s going to sound like.

DG: Without going into the saga of Dean’s score... the score plays a major role I hadn’t even anticipated. The way in which the score becomes a character of its own. I treated the creation of the score the same way I worked with Blaine as an actor. I wanted the best of any given artist’s ability to come out in their work because I recognize where my knowledge begins and ends and I had some ideas about what I wanted. Dean and I watched the movie and he was really excited. I think he understood the character of the story immediately. He found things in it I hadn’t even seen. He was so energized about doing the score—he had never done movies before. He roughed out some ideas and played them for me on a violin and we talked about it and then he disappeared for a while. He literally disappeared and I had no idea where he went for many months. He emerged like a phoenix from the ashes that was our movie. He had this amazing score and I can’t speak enough about how important it ended up being. So I was very pleased with the way the bulk of it worked.

JD: What does Indianapolis mean as a hub for you as an actor and you as a filmmaker? “The Letter” was shot in Indianapolis and written here. Would you describe “the Letter” as a particularly Indianapolis film or Midwestern film? How did the city feed into it?

DG: I think a lot of what goes on in the Letter is a universal story of loss. It’s hard to say what me as a Midwesterner comes out naturally in my storytelling—especially filmmaking as a medium. A lot of filmmakers end up in a certain New York or L.A. culture. It’s hard to say what aspects in the way I tell a story comes from the Midwest. It would be hard to analyze as it’s not about place; it’s about character. I think it speaks a lot of where we are today with the prevalence of video as a medium. It’s a small film and when we were shooting it we thought it would be a learning experience. As we were shooting it, the ambition in everyone with it helped move it forward. I was reluctant to start pushing it out there because it’s my first movie and its [purpose is] kind of for me to learn from. But a movie is such a collaborative effort that it’s not really for me to hold on to and tuck away into a chest. It belongs to everyone to be entered into the public discourse, for better or worse, representing all of our works and names which I’m proud of as a first ever filmmaker. The life that it has been allowed to have in Indianapolis speaks to this place and the budding film community that is here... that people I have met have made it possible to further the film’s life. The people’s interest in what we’re doing offers a lot of hope for the future of local filmmaking not just here but in other places which are not traditional—not just cultural hubs but film hubs. Video is a large part of what is making a lot of it possible. The idea of regional filmmaking—no longer do we have to watch yet another movie about what it’s like to live in New York City. It’s possible for people to learn acting, filmmaking, learn how to express themselves in the Midwest and tell a story about the Midwest.

JD: And not have to conform to a New York idea of how to tell a story?

DG: Right. Because the history of film...you obviously take certain aspects of how to tell a story from that. Over time generations of people like myself who have not been to film school or been taught by anything but watching movies, reading books, absorbing art and culture and the way I express that is going to be an amalgamation of all the things I’ve taken in. That over time there will be a regional film language—something that when you see it will feel like a Midwestern film. Anyone who has watched a foreign film—at times you don’t quite understand it because culturally the way in which their film culture has come up is independent of ours. The language there has its own flavor that is in some ways foreign to us. I have high hopes that it will become a reality as the ability to make movies is no longer put in the hands in a very select few that live in L.A. or New York who can get their hands on the toys.

JD: So how do you two view Indianapolis as a film and theater community? Do you see it as a place with a lot of potential or just a place with a niche value where you can do good productions but not blossom to the point where you can have the level of success that you’d like to have?

BH: When I transferred here I saw so much opportunity... to be on top... to get your name in the newspaper. I’ve been incredibly blessed in coming here in all the opportunities and success I’ve had. I am incredibly enthusiastic in thinking I’m—we’re going to change the world. I’m going to start here and we’re going to do this film. The enthusiasm that I wanted so much for this not to be just a first time student film but for us to say this is an important film. The fact that Indianapolis is where it’s at... we’re afforded those opportunities. We don’t have to work too hard to get the film played or a preview put in a major newspaper. If we were in New York, they’d laugh in our faces. Indianapolis, where it is right now, affords young people like us the opportunity to do larger things. My hope is that the climate is right for a big change to begin to happen... that this would no longer be a town of art administrators but a town of artists. In places like Chicago or Minneapolis or New York or L.A. the artist is a profession. In Indianapolis it’s a hobby for the most part, especially the performing art community, specifically theater and film. Dance and the symphony have traditionally always been considered careers. I don’t know why but here in the Midwest people identify more... it’s a more conservative medium. The ballet and the symphony, you know just makes sense [to the average Midwesterner].

DG: Yeah, the idea of traditional...

BH: In terms of career choice, a local businessman or sponsor can say that’s a safe bet and I can put my money on this form of art. Because theater and film are traditionally more liberal and because we are in such a conservative town I think it becomes difficult to say this is my career. Dylan may work at a bookstore, but I would say his career is filmmaker. He may not be working on a project right now but that’s his job. I feel like we’ve all been placed here to do something. We’ve all been given certain gifts and talents that we’ve been blessed with. Those are things we’re supposed to do regardless if it goes against the cultural norm which in the Midwest happens to be having a 9 to 5 job and doing anything other than that is somehow a copout on society. I think the climate is right for that to happen but it needs to happen now.

JD (to Blaine): You personally seem to be doing some pretty interesting and unconventional theater things with your past production of “the Door.” It wasn’t necessarily a thing to help you pay the bills, but at least it added something experimental and new to the community. And of course your success with Hedwig.

BH: I think that I’ve been extremely blessed with the opportunities that I’ve had here in this town to be able to say I had this idea and I’m just going to do it no matter what. What happened with the Door was that it started as a small directing project and turned into this [hesitating] huge site-specific groundbreaking project which, again having happened in Minneapolis or Chicago or New York, would not have been that big of a deal. What I’m trying to say is that the climate is right for people like us and other local filmmakers or local artists especially in their twenties. I think that is the age right now that people are wanting to move and really do something big. I really really hope that this can be the place that something like that can happen and it will amount to more and more success. I think that that has so much to do with the people that aren’t twentysomethings. Those are the politicians and arts administrators and the sponsors and the people who own Lilly, the Cultural Initiative Program. Trying to get people from Chicago and Minneapolis and Cincinnati to come and take a look at what Indy has to offer. Before they can do that they have to take a look at what ultimately is going to bring those people here and that’s the artists.

DG: Yeah, shipping people in or other artists in to the area, I think, is not really the answer.

BH: No, I believe what’s really going to bring people here is if they take some of that money and throw it to a young filmmaker or someone who wants to start their own theater company. To make that money readily available so that the people who are excited and ready to go to work right now and are going to do whatever it takes to make something happen in this town and make it big and make it important then they’ll have a product which they can market. Right now their marketing—I don’t really understand it.

DG: I think there needs to be a level for those who are still here; those above the age of twentysomething. There are a handful of artists—I’m sure much larger than a handful but a handful that are actually career artists living in the city. Try and retain the twenty- somethings who are now at the point of their lives where they’re deciding... Am I staying here or am I putting the money together to go to New York? I know a ton of people who have done that or are in the process of doing that.

BH: Absolutely.

DG: If you’re not doing that you’re seen as not taking art seriously. It’s funny on one end if you’re not getting a job to be [a part of] society you’re not being taken seriously as a person but then to the artist community if you’re an artist and you’re not getting out of the city you’re not being serious as an artist. Those of us who chose to stay... it’s not an attractive proposition at first. I think it’s starting to change and it’s time for it to change. You know I don’t think that genetically people born in New York are any more inclined towards art than people born in Indiana or Illinois or Iowa or anywhere.

BH: It’s an exposure factor.

DG: Yeah, they need to be fostered. The artistic notion needs to be fostered. You need to feel like there’s a reason why they should want to participate in art as a part of their life. I know so many people did art once in their life when they were in grade school or high school, take some classes and really enjoyed it and now they sit in a cubicle and doodle on a piece of paper and that’s the extent of their artistic expression now . It’s sort of been beaten out of them. There are people that could’ve been artists and could’ve been doing exciting things in Indianapolis but they quit their quest for art at some point because they had to get 9 to 5 jobs. That’s not to say that all people with 9 to 5 jobs aren’t happy but I know a lot of people who are not. I know a lot of them who kind of wish that they had done something else or could do something else. I think it’s entirely possible for anyone at any age in Indianapolis to just start something. It needs everyone’s support. It definitely needs the city’s support and the people with the money in this community to support. So that the children—I sound like a politician—the children of tomorrow who become the artists stay here and give something to the community.

BH: But that’s exactly what it is. Generally—Generationally speaking as you exit college and come to this crossroads of your life and [you are] thinking that what you’re doing is clear a path to what’s going to happen tomorrow. There are times when I wish the people who spearheaded our generation can be a little more forthcoming in the way of the arts and say this is an important thing. I think we have the energy to do it. To me, it’s a financial issue. The biggest thing is probably the financial issue.

DG: Yeah, not just for me to pay the bills, which is why I work in a bookstore but filmmaking being such an expensive proposition. For you to be able to put on a theater event such as Hedwig had you not had the support of Phoenix Theater. That would’ve never—You can get parts in plays without any large expense to yourself if you’re paying bills somehow but in order to really change things you have to be one of the people who are heading up, producing of some sort. To be able to do a big event in theater costs money and space which you have to have access. And for film especially, even with the advent of digital video which makes it more possible. It’s still a large monetary cost to do a film. And for some people it’s not a real film until they’re seeing 35 mm film productions. It’s not a real scene here until that’s happening and for that to happen it costs money.

JD (to Dylan): But you personally are finding Indianapolis to be more receptive as a filmmaker; you got more funding for another short.

DG: Yeah, I just did another short funded by—well put on by CMGI. They’re a company that got a hold of “The Letter” and were interested in me doing a movie for them. That was a huge opportunity and now Blaine and I are talking about developing another project, possible feature length which could be majorly funded by local money, local Midwestern money. It’s still in the works. Since I’ve done this movie and since Blaine’s career here has taken off there’s a lot of people who have expressed interest in doing art with us. I think that’s a major compliment. Blaine—just when I hang out with him he gets an enormous amount of people saying, “What’s your next project?” I get a certain degree of people who are really interested in what my next project is and what can they do to help even if it’s money or time or something else. That’s how my first two movies got done. I expect if I continue to do movies here then that’s how it’s going to continue. People here are enthusiastic about art and about film. They want to see it happen. There are a lot of people who want to work in that field here—all aspects of production who after this film are excited energized about doing another movie. Whether or not it materializes is in the hands of producers of film and art and it’s in the hands of those who have the money to make it happen.